Joe McClane, the host of “A Catholic Take” morning show on theStationoftheCross.com radio station in New York, with over 10 million YouTube viewers, interviewed, on April 2nd, advocate Robert J. Spitz, lawyer of Benjamin Seryani, who is suing Vatican-linked entities in the US, including the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulcher of Jerusalem (referred to by many as the Knights of the Holy Sepulcher) for 426.7 million US dollars.

Below is the transcript of the interview as provided on the station’s website, followed by the PDF of the press release and the full appeal>.

. The entire online program is available here.

​Catholic Take: Today, for the first time, it seems breaking news that there has been an official complaint in a US court. A RICO complaint against the Holy See. Attorney Robert Spitz, who has filed this on behalf of his client, joins us this morning all the way from sunny California.

Catholic Take: Good morning to you, Attorney Spitz, thank you for your time

Spitz: Well, thank you for having me on your program. I appreciate the time.

Catholic Take: So, all right, so this is the first time a RICO complaint against the Vatican has been filed in US Court, tell us exactly what that means and what is the nature of the complaint?

Spitz: In the beginning we need to make sure everyone knows that this is about a business relationship that my client Benjamin had with the Catholic Church they were in the process of establishing the American University of Madaba in Jordan in the Holy Land as a prestigious University for Catholic persons and even non-Catholic persons from around the world as well as the Middle East to come and study and learn and have a very prestigious University. The problem was that they didn’t have anybody that could manage and bring it to completion and do all the things that needed to finish the construction and to complete this very special school in the Middle East in the Holy land and so they hired my client Benjamin Seryani to manage and oversee virtually every aspect of this property to bring it to a conclusion and allow the school to open and be this star of a university in the in the Holy land and he did that not only did he manage the project he invested millions of dollars of his own money.

He purchased the buses that were used to bring students from the city center out to the location of the University, he bought and built the dining facilities for the school he obtained all the equipment for the science labs and when he was all done he said listen I’ve invested all this money I’ve done all this thing you’ve made all these promises to me can I get paid because he was behind over $10 million in in investing of his own money to do this. They kept telling him the money will be coming don’t worry the angels will come and bring your money this is the Catholic Church the Vatican is behind it, the Vatican will pay you don’t worry about it just keep going and he did in good faith, his honor invested in this school and then they said well listen Mr. Seryani you know what we thought was coming there was some  Cardinal was arrested at the airport for money laundering in Rome and some of your money was on that plane we want to introduce you to a person and he’s going to help with the money.

Well that person he introduced to turned out to be a facilitator for an international money laundering scheme that would bring money not just for the project here but to also  wet the hands of many others as well in the in the process of the money laundering scheme and he said no I I’m not going to participate in that you told me the Vatican was behind this you told me the Vatican would bring the money why am I now engaged in some money laundering scheme with International corporations and they said well Mr. Seryani this is how we do business this is how  we need to get your money so if you want your money you need to sign these papers he refused, when he refused they said get out of the country don’t come back you’re not getting your money we’re not paying you a dime we don’t care what you did go home go back to America and never knock our door again and so for the last seven years he’s been trying to get his money back from this   International Enterprise the Catholic Church the Roman Catholic Church the Holy See and we’ve been fighting a legal battle ever since to try to just get his money that he was promised to get many years ago.

Catholic Take:  Who at the Vatican was he coordinating with? Are you able to say?

Spitz:  Well he was dealing primarily in the Latin patriarchate of Jerusalem it’s the Holy Land the is the Latin patriarch at that time was Foad Twall it’s now Pizzaballa both of those Patriarchs who are in charge of the Holy Land he was dealing directly with them they were making the promises in fact Foad Twall who was Patriarch at the time gave him a power of attorney that essentially turned over all of his authority to Benjamin Seryani to be able to facilitate and complete the management of this project because he was such a trusted person. He was given a power of attorney to do everything that was needed to do, and he trusted them; they trusted him, but that trust was broken

Catholic Take: So, is Pizzaballa named in the complaint?

Spitz: So, what happened was when we initially filed this lawsuit, four years ago or so, he was named Twall, and a lot of individuals were named. The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem was named, but for some reason despite having sufficient information evidence and documents showing that there was a relationship between the Latin Patriarch and America we were told that there’s no jurisdiction over these foreign entities that we lacked standing or we lacked a proper foundation and yet we provided the court was very substantial evidence of such. We were denied by the trial court judge, and it went to appeal. The appeal court could not even explain why the evidence we had was not sufficient for jurisdiction, so we have returned the case, it’s come down from appeal, and we have um now pled the lawsuit against local California entities who are involved in this international conspiracy.

Catholic Take:  So, where do you expect it to go from here?  How do you see it playing out?

Spitz: Well, we’ve now brought in additional entities, of is called The Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulcher of Jerusalem. It’s a California based un-incorporate Association that pretends to be a church and is doing all the funding and a lot of people don’t know that the funding for all of the activities in the Holy Land virtually every penny that is used to pay the activities of the Holy Land come from this one organization called the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulcher of Jerusalem and they have engaged about 30,000 members worldwide who all pay a very large amount of money to be members of this organization and to fund all the activities in the Holy land. So that organization is the funding source, and we have named the funding source for the Latin Patriarchate

Catholic Take: So, I I’m not an attorney, I don’t understand how the process works but since you’ve you brought this case against the Vatican will eventually someone from the Vatican have to come and you know give testimony or come to a court hearing or how I mean how much is the Vatican going to be drawn into it?

Spitz: Well, thank you for that question. That was a very interesting question and part of this case for the very first time I took the deposition of the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, no one has ever taken his deposition before they fought like crazy to prevent him from having to testify but I took about three hours of deposition of him in which he essentially admitted most of the facts of the case he doesn’t deny any of what I’ve been telling you and the only reason we have not yet prevailed to get a judgment is simply because the courts took the side of the Catholic church and said well you just can’t sue those foreign entities here in America even though the Catholic church has a worldwide presence and they’re everywhere.   No, we’re not going to let you sue them here, and so we’ve turned to the funding source for the Latin Patriarchate in order to accomplish our goal so that deposition then is a part of.

Catholic Take: In your [press] release here it says it includes 45 exhibits multiple sworn declarations and detail evidence of financial transfers ecclesiastical coverups and false filings so that’s going to be part of the case so do you do you think you have a fair chance for your client in this in this case?

Spitz: We have a fair chance if we get a fair hearing there’s 300 paragraphs in this complaint there are 11 causes of action everything is documented with over a thousand pages of documentation every word every paragraph every part of this complaint has been documented with the depositions of members of the Catholic Church as well as documents that were involved in this project we have everything completely documented and we would expect if we get a fair trial to prevail on this.

Catholic Take:  You know, I find it interesting because on a parallel path, I suppose there’s been a call for RICO [Racketeering Influences and Corrupt Organizations] investigation into a lot of the cover-up in regard to sexual abuse within the members of the hierarchy of the church. In the States and abroad and you filed a complaint a RICO style complaint against them in this regard for finances and  I just find that very interesting so let me ask you this what’s the best outcome on this I mean I think it’s fairly obvious but I would like you to state it best outcome and then what’s the worst and then I guess what’s that middle ground might look like?

Spitz:  Well we have several things here and you’ve touched lightly on one of them one of them is that the Holy See itself is immune from litigation you cannot file an action against the Holy See and bring it into this jurisdiction or any jurisdiction as a litigate it’s a separate nation that has immunity and you cannot get a judgment against the Holy See directly, so all you can do is go after its arms and its legs and its hands and its fingers if you want to get a judgment. So, we’re of course seeking a monetary judgment, but at the same time, we’re here to bring to light some of the corruption that has taken place within the Catholic Church. We’re hoping to achieve some transformation of the church to begin to operate ethically and morally. The Catholic church has the Vatican Bank inside the Vatican. You cannot touch the Vatican Ban​k, you cannot get its documents there is no oversight by the European Union. It is a bank that operates independently money comes in and money goes out and no one has any oversight over its action so to bring that understanding to the people to bring to the people of America and the world the understanding that things need to change within the financial organization of this  Catholic Church worldwide is something we would always like to accomplish.

Catholic Take:  We’re almost out of time here. I’m really grateful you got up early this morning and joined us to talk about this. Where can anybody find more information about this? Is there a website? Is there an article where people can watch and track the progress of this case?

Spitz:  Well, yes, the website of the court it’s in San Bernardino, California. San Bernardino County, California. It’s on the Court’s website that you can find out the pleadings that we just filed. Anyone can download those pleadings it’s the case is entitled Benjamin Seryani s e r y a ni versus the Holy See.   It’s a case in the San Bernardino Court; anybody can go search it and download our thousand pages of documents that comprise this case.

Catholic Take: Attorney Robert Spitz, grateful again, thank you for letting us better understand this case and complaint. We’ll watch it very carefully. Love to have you back soon, maybe for an update. God bless you, and God loves you.

Below is the press release issued by the lawyer, followed by the full filing

Below is the full 1,384-page court file